tv Cross Talk RT September 10, 2018 11:30am-12:01pm EDT
hospital his leg studied bleeding profusely my son said he thought it would be amputated and i said you will be fine my son he was in surgery from six pm until midnight they were giving him blood units and he was bleeding at the same time without stopping then we found out that the nerves were destroyed and the vein was cut off metz heart stopped beating twice a doctor came out asking for us as brother and but asked me to stay outside he closed the door and took my sons' aside to talk to them then they came out crying and weeping i told them that i knew he will be dead if it was an explosive bullet i could see from his injuries that he would not survive the type of ammunition we heard about this design to explode on impact it's meant to cause severe wounds or kill human rights watch has been warning about the use of exploding bullets since the beginning of the protests. medical journal articles including by israel defense
forces trauma surgeons have documented that gunshot wounds from assault rifle bullets cause severe soft tissue damage have a high incidence of complications and that any delay at the scene of injury might jeopardize limb survival. check it out see dot com for the latest including what's happening. to see the palestinian borders but for now thanks for much watching me now from. a low in welcome to crossfire for all things considered i'm peter lavelle u.s.
president donald trump is on a complete reversal on syria a full one eighty what accounts for this why and what's next. cross talking terms one eighty on syria i'm joined by my guest here in moscow mark slobodan he's an international affairs and security analyst we also have dmitri bobbitt she's a political analyst we spoke nick international and we have done these and he was a visiting scholar at the higher school of economics are german cross-like rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it we're going to hold this entire program to what's going on in syria primarily donald trump's one eighty a few months ago he mentioned publicly getting out of syria now it looks like the president has changed his mind or is had his mind changed mark yeah i think i'll go with the last after what we've seen this week with the release of the book by bob
woodward with the release of this not a miss editorial in the new york times op ed in the new york times i'm sorry with this deep state or in the administration. outing himself i'm sorry not deep state or he persuaded state or even for is the term steady state ok steady state or. you know saying that he swipes documents off of trump's desk to prevent him from signing them and that there is a ball of officials particularly on foreign policy that do whatever they can to prevent donald trump's policies from being fulfilled so i think we're looking rather at the deep state the steady state has full control of the foreign and military policy now with regards to syria as we've long discussed about and we heard this announcement of this new policy of this indefinite for ever u.s. military presence in syria not by trump himself but by james jeffrey ok it's only
what. what is the strategy. do they even know this point you know i think it's a good question to ask whether or not there's a clear strategy definitely after you know afghanistan iraq libya is worth asking whether or not there's a clear strategy behind but i think with charm it's definitely something to this that the u.s. isn't actually acting at a unitary actor at the moment given that you have this infighting even within this own administration but. if we assume that trump's assumptions have been quite genuine that he wants to pull america security guarantees back a little bit there has been two important exceptions which has been first iran he's quite hostile in iran and the second will be america's friendship with israel and of course syria is right in the middle of both of these two exceptions so i guess he was always somewhat to predispose me to use the sweetness of you know if he
takes out his parents envelope with all of his promises on the back that i've mentioned many times in this program he's not technically starting a new war that was his promise ok so he's flipping it here. we have the rand russia and turkey meeting in. everyone puts a nice based on it but it was a disaster it was a car wreck well i think why the very fact that russia and iran walked on something together the first time when i think three same creates you know if you look at the history of conflict we know you know agree on something in common you know who's the odd man out i think in this time where it's of course spread and. it's very unfortunate because basically when i talk to syria and so they all agree that the war is a war there will be all will be quote it should be but it looks like it's going to
be reignited in a really big way. the problem is that their position has exhausted its potential i mean it's clear that syrians want one piece of the country's exhaust and everything is more or less clear you know and the syrians they simply have no guts no desire for forty continued war so they're really irritated by this continued uncertainty about evil iop ok ok that's ok that's exactly what we want to get you're absolutely right but they're not so exhausted that they're not going to and they are doing it as we speak right now yeah liberating the city what we've actually seen so far is just the claiming of the low hanging fruit the real wars are yet to come and they could potentially be much much more significant i where the regards to the strategy that the u.s. is deploying in syria i think the moon of alabama blog we would if we were just looking at it eloquently here it is here you are on this literally on this thing is here u.s.
military illegally stays in occupied syria dot dot dot underpants dot dot dot i could be wrong to. leave syria and the syrian government falls i mean that's the even if you're actually reading the same article here glenn it was that everyone had asked all foreigners have to leave syria except for the united states so why the turks will that remains to be played out here and but there seems to be a move to create in effect a partition right now i mean the u.s. wants to create some kind of state with some like autonomy semi-independent that will be dependent on the western powers primarily the united states no one in the in the region wants that maybe israel. sort of. i think that syria is going to have to appreciate the situation to see the states in at the moment in terms of what their initial objectives of course when they went
into syria first supporting this jealous. jihadists want to write whatever you want to call it a however if we want to call it but of course the somewhat clear you get rid of assad which is an important ally of iran. they're considered annoyance to. and of course the reestablish us yet it must mean the regional of syria thought differently apparently. but i think now we have the opposite iran has more influence there than it had in the past the us a spin largely discredited in the region and of course russia's. security provider so you know if you do if you're from egypt or jordan if you want security in the region from now on you have to also book a flight to moscow so i think that. everything that went for has gone the other way and that's not necessarily a good thing because when you have this winner takes all situations that had other side a more historically more dissenting celine's david ignatius is interview with
a high government. white house official about creating quagmires in syria the human usually the term strategic patience is applied to the united states dealing with north korea but the russians have been strategically patient in syria you could tell in turn around blood amir putin is beginning to lose his patience with his partners and with the situation on the ground again syria and so will be in their patience with the war and of course the russians including volume of. patients with the so-called international community i mean i watched the. session chaired by victorious in the went on syria and i was just disgusted you know. the reason why i mean example the fraying the french said that russia's was the main responsibility of for the possible humanitarian catastrophic. problems. cvo france was never invited there it is a former colonial power the french killed hundreds of thousands of syrians you know
. plaintiffs aintree and now they say this is all the responsibility there was. a victorian law of herself who just recently said russia was never going to be america's friend you remember and now she says she's calling on russia in the end of her speech where quote in order to show walk with us walk with your no we're never going to be all friend but walk with us and let me decode that means listen to us and do what we say hear more that we have this is not just a very important very quick the united states has been warned about bad consequences in syria new riyadh in mali the former prime minister of iraq said that the civil war would spread to iraq they said no and it it did spread there african union in libya the african union warned the united states that after khadafi falls there is going to be and we gratian disaster is going to be a cancer so it really didn't have the thousand to me there was no isis in iraq and there was no isis in syria has more of we here humanitarian catastrophe we've heard
this many many times before look what happened with aleppo when it was liberated was there a humanitarian catastrophe no it was completely forgotten ok same thing the humanitarian forces of al qaeda were completely driven from the city. i mean this coming from the united states is simply rise of bull right no one cried about a humanitarian catastrophe when the u.s. was bombing the iraqi cities of. salt or uninvited the syrian cities of rock called body men be when they were driving jihadists in this case isis out of western iraq and eastern syria in fact in agency u.n. team and amnesty international on the ground in rocka after the u.s. offensive said it was the most destroyed city in the syrian cup. inflict
seventy to eighty percent of the buildings destroyed far more than two thousand civilian casualties and. this is you know the rhetoric that we hear from the united states basically it's saying when you are conducting counter terror ops against al qaeda and the remnants of our proxies do what we say not what we did in syria if you think. it's interesting how trump is being played into this here because i think there's a lot of smart military people would think that the military strategy there is it isn't a military strategy at this point it's a political one it is is it's creating and putting down a marker here. there could be a conflict with russia in all this is this been followed out or is it a bluff. well i think they can deftly stumble into the second when you develop a strategy what distinguishes strategy from policy is usually you have to predict
what the adversaries will do and then i think in this situation i've had too many actors with too many interests and probably has and while that might not have planned everything out we often assume that they know exactly what they're doing but i don't think that they do and i think this quagmire strategy well they said look this is going to go to really the regular bit with other things that's happened here is you usually somebody must go then you invade the country but now they've been behind the country and they have that men there deciding what should be done so this is regime change in reverse gen well gentlemen to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on syria and staying with. seemed wrong. but. just don't call. me. yet to say
proud to stay active. and engaged equals betrayal. when somebody find themselves worlds apart when just to look for common ground. in twenty forty you know bloody revolution to include the demonstrations going from being relatively peaceful political protests to be creasing the violent revolution is always spontaneous or is it you know here got to be a pretty meaningless book to do with him in the new bill is that i knew people in the middle of the former ukrainian president recalls the events of twenty fourteen . those who took part in this to do over five billion dollars to assist ukraine in these and other ensure a secure. and prosperous and democratic. welcome
back to cross talk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle remind you we're discussing the situation in syria. ok let me go to markets kind of broaden this out i think kind of look at the interests and positions of some of the characters in this beyond donald trump go ahead i think probably the most important from the very beginning has always been turkey and earth to god i mean without the turkish border none of the u.s. saudi supply ship around the world would get into syria and their role in that as as the base i mean the u.s. bases in turkey for illegally arming training and salary and their jihadi proxies for regime change in syria were literally euphemistically named the
moslems sensors and these are. centers in turkey. in the austin agreement this has always been kind of a geopolitical dance if you will imagine putin and erdogan waltzing across the chessboard with daggers poised at each other's back they both have interests that russia was trying to exploit the split of you know the disagreements between erdogan and the u.s. and nato especially over the kurds and so on you know and paying lip service to turkish interests in there but what he was really trying to do is cut the other backers of regime change saudi arabia qatar the u.a.e. the u.s. u.k. france israel out of it right because we could deal with turkey he knew that supply lines you know the open border it was always about turkey in. in this latest austin our summit in tehran we saw the gloves come off and we saw the reality that it's
been all along one of the things that glint i mean it seems to me that turkey is the ending of isolating itself it is it has kind of a tepid cool relationship with the u.s. look what happened in the turkish lira situation with nato obviously iran and russia or it ards with plans he doesn't want to see fall he's the odd guy out here and it's probably not a good position to be in preparing long no i agree and i think that he's alienated everyone now from the european two americans russia. have core serious or less or less the iranians don't trust him fully but i think. this improvement of relations between russia and turkey is a smart pointer can be a bit deceptive i think that this rift between the americans and the turks definitely have given russia some flexibility but at the end of the day as we saw and now in this meeting that their interests are quite different to russia and
turkey have mutual interests ok i don't call them partners in syria. no i think actually that's the irony of the whole thing that is serious where their interests would clash the most in other areas their interests are. much more aligned so i think that the split with the u.s. and also other interests in terms of a turkey considering leaving more to the east i think. weapon sales i think there's a lot of work in and i think that perhaps was trying to use this is a real wrinkle in all of this to me is the kurds ok because the u.s. continues to support them but people on the ground you know not want in northern syria in northeast syria they don't want to be ruled by. turkey. you know what would you call them their all their assets ok and then at the same time they don't want to be ruled by these arab tribes that want to be ruled by the kurds so i mean it's kind of a hopeless situation there and then the u.s. . in the middle of it all well when their u.s. moved in and when the destabilized situation in syria to go away the destabilize
the situation in iraq before the consequences were unpredictable it's like starting a chain reaction you know and i'm not to ensure the united states is really guided by interests in this war situation because if we'll look at their resolves the results are abysmal for us interests the united states failed to pull pull not even an anti western president present us it was not anti western and mildly disagreeing he was called a reformer absolutely yes and the result is that they was they basically lost a very important ally turkey which is much more important than syria in libya they moved in or k. they didn't like khadafi qatar who was killed now they have a civil war in the bear migration current crisis in europe ice is so great in libya so if we judge the situation from the position of interests a bomber should be declared the most disastrous president in u.s. history simply because he's actions were against against the long term u.s.
interests. is this just refusing defeat i mean this is double down and keep trying what we've been doing before i mean he explained the brush analogy isn't just the empire is it missy and he can be doing these ideas right i mean if it's interested in were the results i mean the result side of the ledger is pretty thin i mean they of course refused to see that you know the increased iranian russian influences is obvious blowback to what we all saw at the beginning of the conflict they have an inability to see that and they also have an inability to admit defeat to russia that would have huge geopolitical import you know representatives of russia russia russian are going around the world they simply can't allow it so what the neo cons have been doing is all along since trump took office they've been planning to use this the wrong. unspin to make to convince trump to become more active in
syria not because of russia but because of iran and that has played out in what the us has announced as their new strategy i.e. they are never leaving their illegal military occupation of syria unless iran leaves all their troops home which is a matter between syria and iran. and the syria a syrian government that is acceptable to the international community and the we're not interested in regime change but we're not leaving until we get a government that is acceptable to the international community which means the washington consensus it glenn. we've talked about this subject for so many times on this program here but really the issue we have players like turkey that are unpredictable but one country that is absolutely predictable in all this is iran in iran has made it very very clear that will not allow the current government the political political arrangement in damascus to be forcefully overthrown that is
their red line and that's what the u.s. cannot accept agree with that and do it would also be reasonable to suspect that that might be next in line and once it was there from syria so i think it's just help to self-defense as well in addition to looking after an ally but i think their interests are clear because they clearly defined and been following it throughout the whole thing and they were invited you know did their yes which is was slightly ironic to the americans to set up an occupation solo in syria or calling for the iranians to pull the coup which obviously it wanted him to appreciate they're actually invited to destabilize the country so it's not so i mean if there is going to be a permanent presence here then it tells me that we will never get to a period of peace i mean this goes back to the quick mire comment which i think it was probably bolton or palm pale that said there is a big. if they don't have a end game that they can achieve just keep steering it up and i've kind of liken it
to like a roulette wheel you know you throw the wheel you start spinning and then you throw the ball and you don't get the number you want let's spin it again that seems to me the strategy here which is very dangerous well i agree i think that a quagmire as well as setting up the occupation of solace more indication of an absence of a strategy because what they're saying since your third position. we're not sure what we wanted or how we can get it will delay and see what opportunities comes in the future and we can negotiate with this quagmire so it's expensive. creates tensions and a lot of it lead russia in iraq just like we did in afghanistan by supporting the move just a point to point b. well i mean that you compare it to a rule that i compare it to history i like compare it. will be reverse time but i compare it to the ideal world devolution there bolshevists the basically a you know spread on the ball i don't it's not historically idaho absolutely i mean
like we tried them can agree we failed as the matter who trade gain would try again in germany in germany would argue about would you need a period after the first of all of the worst of all when russia was a radio ideological bolshevism was really in its early stage were active and believe in itself so in the same way it all reminds me of these ok we failed in iraq you know iraq is a law and now you rainy and missile hits report accidents reported that the next to their israeli territory doesn't matter will try again in libya we failed in libya there's a method there you would you cannot be wrong you know people can be wrong individuals can be wrong we picked up a wrong candidate hillary clinton she was to do these if we'll have a better one next time but we couldn't feel we couldn't really use the idea you know he is a wrecked their ideology is correct so in the same way syria now or this document united nations there are all. paramount us and principles of us to
see you get the idea of the document is that there should be no un eight to reconstruct syria there is a political transition or maybe to this little maybe to the little statelet they will get here you know mark one of the things i find fascinating going back to the internal politics of the united states is that this is throwing the dice but if it fails will strops fault isn't it it's his administration well i mean we could have completely ignore that it was obama who actually launched the proxy war on syria if we want but i don't really i don't really see it that way because we see broad bipartisan support you know whether it's adam schiff. and. nancy pelosi doing meet and greets with the mujahideen you know video messages and so on there is broad bipartisan support the the two party war party came here to say this is making consensus is fully behind you know the u.s.
stepping up their aggression against syria no but instead. it was if he stepped down they would blame the other three status has many fathers but failure is a bastard ok and i think this is no no there's a bipartisan support at the highest levels against president they want to see him fail on everything ok even if it's in spite of me in spite of the interest of the united states in the world they're going to the last word well i agree with what mark said in terms of this a bipartisan interest in this in continuing this what is essentially a failed mission but the same problem i would point out of a lot of people in washington are noticing that this. moment is retracting and there is a vacuum an opening for being feels as if you are more aggressive in its allies. even though recognize that there's no one who. have a good answer what now what a transistor next pointed out that i would like to work with as long as what it's
told so it's not really quite sure what will come next and i think. they should transition to building a wall on the southern border as all the time the have gentlemen many thanks to my guests here in moscow this is the end of our broadcast segment stay with us for the extended version on our you tube channel see you next time and remember. prosecution will need to become almost. as cold where you. just read you'll find. somebody. political pressure on the.
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